Did You Know? - A Stop at H.N. Williams Store
The Vermont Folklife Archive is full of amazing first-person accounts of everyday life in Vermont and New England–past and present. In this feature, we share these stories with you.
H. N. Williams Story in Dorset, VT. Image courtesy of H. N. Williams Store facebook page.
General stores have long held a special place in Vermont life as sites of commerce and centers of community. Our associate archivist, Susan Creighton loves to explore Vermont, and following a recent recommendation she set out to visit the H.N. Williams Store in Dorset. She loved it, and afterwards she discovered something terrific: we have interviews about this selfsame store in our archive!
Established by William Williams, ownership has been passed down through the family since the 1840s. In the summer of 1979, VT Folklife founder Jane Beck recorded two interviews with Ada Rumney, the great-granddaughter of William Williams, and her son-in-law Dennis Brownlee exploring the history and the future of H. N. Williams Store. Today the store is owned by Ada’s grandson Billy Brownlee and is filled with as wide an assortment of goods as ever, along with historic photographs of the business throughout the years.
Ada begins by telling the story of the history of the store from the 1840's:
Ada: Well, William Williams started this place as a harness shop and tannery. They made harnesses and repaired harnesses, made pieces for them, for repairing harnesses, and they also made shoes and took them down to Albany, I think about twice a year. And they continued on until - and then my grandfather George Williams and his brother Charles, and that they carried on as William Williams Sons. Kept the same name.
And my great-uncle Charles had the grain, and my grandfather had the…continued with the shoemaking and repairing, and then my father, as he got old enough joined in the business with him. And my father joined in, I would say the late 1800's or early 1900's, and he had the…in addition to the…he helped with the shoe repair but he also had, wagons and bicycles of which he sold and also repaired them, and that was about the time when he had the big barn that was moved down from Dorset village. I have no idea how many horses; there must've been quite a string of them that towed that down. And then they, well he kept wagons until as long as--wagons and sleighs in the wintertime--and they probably in the 1920's when cars began to get a little bit more popular, why the wagons gradually went out, and then he enlarged the store by, well taking on, I mean he began selling-- I don't know what he start in with first, I have no idea, I was too small at the time to remember. But he just got different items, gradually his people would say, "can you get this for me?" and "well I haven't it now, but I'll try to get it for you as soon as I can." And then they'd continue carrying that and that would add one more item until it has generalized into well quite an odd conglomeration of which we still do have all of those things, especially grain and hardware.
The store also served as a center of community and as a social gathering place especially on Saturday nights.
Jane: I think I remember when I was here before, you told me that people used to gather in the store at...
Ada: Oh Saturday nights. Oh yes that's, that's kind of the thing of the past but, oh yes, they would, they generally always end up buying some things too but they, just a slower casual, type of life and they'd generally pull out a nail keg or a box or something and have a few games of cards and it was fun.
Jane: Did that go out a long time ago, or was that when you were still a child or...?
Ada: Oh that was still when I, when I worked for my brother. He was doing that, that was some, well that was probably 30, 35 years ago. But you see we've been here, thirty-two years, ha, ha.
The audio recording of the following excerpt is unfortunately damaged and no longer intelligible. Thankfully, we still have a transcript:
Jane: Did you used to have a lot of people come in and sit around the stove?
Ada: There was more of that, used to be - there isn't now. Saturday nights, especially.
Jane: Did you used to stay open extra late Saturday nights?
Ada: Oh, yes. My dad used to stay until about 10 o'clock. We stay open until about 8 o'clock but he used to be here until about 10:00.
Jane: Do you figures that sitting around and chatting by the stove has gone by?
Ada: It depends. There's an old fellow over there in Newport - quite apt to be Saturday nights that he will come in. He likes to come, just sit and visit. He generally ends up getting a few things that he came especially for but he just likes to visit too. I think most of them are in too much of a rush - they come in and get what they want and go. Most of them don't stop and pass the time of day.
Jane: Did you used to have good story tellers?
Ada: One especially.
Jane: Is he still alive?
Ada: No, sad to say, he's been gone quite a while.
Jane: Would he do it every Saturday night?
Ada: He seemed to have quite a memory that he could remember these old stories and some he just made up, I'm sure. What you would consider him is a typical character. And of course we had [unintelligible] down in Manchester - have you ever heard of Walter Hard, the poet. He was from Manchester, just the next town down. I have a record of his, by not somebody else but by himself reading his own poetry. And of course, he knew how he wanted it to sound for having written it.
At the time of these interviews, Dennis Brownlee and his wife were working with Ada and her husband and had not yet taken over the running of the store. Here, they talk together about what it takes to learn to run a general store.
Ada: Well I, I took, well I worked for my father and then after he passed away I worked for my brother, and then after he, he only outlived his father for ten years, and then my husband and I came and we've been here ever since. And then gradually my, our son-in-law has been here about three years is it, Dennis?
Dennis: Three or four.
Ada: About three years, and he's, he's in this time he's learned what I think he knows where just about everything is now, which takes a time as it's not set up as usual stores are, as you can see.
Jane: Well you obviously enjoy…
Ada: But it's fun, I enjoy it, I don't know what I would do if I wasn't here. But having been here most of my life, it's part of my life.
Jane: How long do you figure it'll take Dennis to learn to really...?
Ada: Well, I think he's, he certainly knows where everything is and he knows, he's--I think he can take over most any time probably.
Jane: I see Dennis shaking his head. Ha!fd
Ada: Ha! Ha!
Dennis: Well.
Ada: Because there's, well there's probably some things that he, on the buying maybe still it might be a little troublesome yet but. Not that much but what could be ironed out I'm sure.
Dennis: I really enjoy the store and I enjoy people coming in, the local people and talking to them, I guess I enjoy that the most. And I enjoy the work, I think the general store is still very viable because we have so many things, people don't have to run as far. I've had several people say that with the gas situation the way it is, they think that we'll probably be busier all the time. And my wife's real happy that we carry on the family business and the store and keep it in the family. And I really enjoy it so...
Jane: Has it been hard to learn the business or have you found that you're just absorbing it?
Dennis: It's a little difficult because it's not all organized, and but I've learned pretty well where everything is at, and I'll have to learn a few more things. On the ordering of things but...
Jane: What do you think--how do you think this compares with most other general stores? You must be…
Dennis: I haven't, well the ones I've seen are more geared to tourists. And made up more or less, and this is really the real thing. And, I haven't seen too many others like it. Ha! Ha! In fact, I haven't ever even any like it. Ha! Ha!
Jane: No, I haven't either! It’s really something.
We're grateful to the Williams family for their work over the years to keep this part of valuable Vermont culture alive and vibrant!